Pat Gray Interview: From Small-Town Montana to National Radio (At The Mic Throwback)

KEITH MALINAK (00:06.136)

You're listening to At The Mic with Keith, an independent podcast production. And thank you so much for joining me. I am Keith. This is At The Mic with Keith. And this is the first effort here. This is my first podcast. And I thought, you know, what better way to start this thing than by sitting down with Pat Gray from Pat Gray Unleashed on The Blaze. He and I have, wow, we've known each other for almost 20 years now.

And I thought this would be a great way to introduce this podcast to the world. So thank you so much for checking it out. I hope it meets your expectations. Here is Pat Gray, my first guest on At the Mic. This is actually, Pat, you may not know this, but this will be the very first posting. Okay. This will be episode one. Wow. This is Pat Gray. You know him from Pat Gray Unleashed on Blaze TV, the Blaze Radio Network.

youtube.com Pat Gray. Pat is ubiquitous. He's everywhere. He's Mr. Twitter. He's at Pat Unleashed on Twitter. You can't escape Pat Gray. Thank you for making time with me today. No, this is going to be fun. Thank you. No, we're off to a good start. I mean that. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, so Pat, you were born and raised, right? Born and raised on the mean streets of Helena, Montana. Is that right? Yes. Okay. So tell me about life in the big city. How did that?

PAT GRAY (01:12.834)

Thank you, Keith.

PAT GRAY (01:25.55)

That is right.

was harrowing, of course, with the bullets flying at all times. The Kevlar vests I had to wear on way to school. Kevlar helmets. What? I don't know how many times I was shot in the head, but thank heaven for Kevlar helmets. I didn't actually take a bus to school. It's Helena, Montana. I walked to school.

KEITH MALINAK (01:35.938)

Bake hell are- Go to-

KEITH MALINAK (01:42.574)

school bus like the beast like the

KEITH MALINAK (01:50.254)

So when you were growing up, many people lived in Helena? said 30,000.

PAT GRAY (01:53.71)

30,000 now if you include the Helena Valley and East Helena You're probably talking closer to 70,000 people Wow. Yeah, it's a thriving metropolis my friend Yeah, it's a Megalopolis. I think is what you'd call it

KEITH MALINAK (02:00.524)

the greater Helena.

KEITH MALINAK (02:08.85)

Obviously.

KEITH MALINAK (02:13.282)

But see, now Helena to me, and let's see if you have the same perspective, would be the perfect size town for me. Alright? I love small towns, like big small towns. I just feel that, in that part of the country especially, I feel like it would be perfect for me. How was it growing up,

PAT GRAY (02:32.014)

It was a great place to grow up, You know, apart from the shootings. Which as we all know didn't happen. It was a really good place to grow up. I mean, there's not super exciting things to do in Helena, but we had lakes around there. Had a beautiful lake that we went to all the time called Canyon Ferry. And you know, snowed in the winter, so we had a little ski resort that you could go to that was kind of crappy, but we liked it.

And I mean, a lot of outdoors things to do.

KEITH MALINAK (03:05.486)

I was gonna say probably the community I would assume is based on a bunch of outdoor activities recreation stuff like that You get into any of those any of those hobbies?

PAT GRAY (03:13.016)

I'd say so,

Some of it. Yeah, I skied a little bit and we did go to the lake all the time. You know, I did like mountain climb. Did I rock climb? Did I enjoy fishing and hunting? No, not really. No. But a lot of Montanans do. You know, Montana's I mean, famous for all that stuff.

KEITH MALINAK (03:35.502)

What did you do for fun then if you didn't take any of those stuff?

PAT GRAY (03:38.12)

I took drugs. Hard drugs? I drugs. I didn't take drugs. I, you know, we, I did what I said. I went to the lake and we went to movies. you know, hung out. We cruised the drag. Stupid things that you did in the 70s.

KEITH MALINAK (03:41.23)

Like did you dabble or was it like-

KEITH MALINAK (03:56.01)

As a kid were you were you clawing your hair out trying to get out of there or did you genuinely let in other words by the time

PAT GRAY (04:02.222)

I was, yeah, like 18, 19. I wanted to leave, yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (04:06.7)

Miss it. Do you wish you were living there today? No. No.

PAT GRAY (04:08.942)

No, no, I like a bigger city I like more things to do I like to be around you know people and things and there's actually Stores and restaurants and malls and I mean Helena literally Doesn't have a mall. I mean there was one it was called the Capitol Hill shopping center, I think but it was like five stores and they all went out of business and so

I think there's an ice cream parlor that's still open in it. And maybe not even that now. I don't know.

KEITH MALINAK (04:43.572)

That's weird. There's no mall there cuz I I lived briefly in Scotts Bluff, Nebraska that I think if you stretch, you know You've got the Helena Valley and I think if you stretch and you include the the the sprawling metropolis that is Scotts Bluff, Garing, Terry town which is a Which is basically a trailer park you get about 20,000 maximum. They had a mall Like what's Helen is deal? Yeah, like you

PAT GRAY (05:05.454)

really? a real... I don't know, you would think it's enough people to support a mall, but I don't know. There was never a good one there.

KEITH MALINAK (05:16.174)

I think an indoor getaway in the dead of winter would be something that

PAT GRAY (05:20.748)

Yeah, you can't do the outdoor malls like other towns do, which are really popular now. It's usually the outdoor malls, the areas where you have the town centers that spring up now. You really can't do that in Helena.

KEITH MALINAK (05:36.654)

you are the youngest of six. Correct? Six children. You have three sisters, two brothers. You're the youngest. Like we just said. how was that growing up? Did you get picked on a lot or?

PAT GRAY (05:39.768)

Yeah.

PAT GRAY (05:47.79)

They were all a lot older than me and so They weren't around much. My next youngest brother is seven years older than me Wow almost eight years older than me

KEITH MALINAK (05:58.968)

How did your parents ever pull you aside and said,

PAT GRAY (06:01.088)

Look, you're just a horrible mistake. Sorry. Yeah, they told me that every day almost almost every day. Horrible, horrible.

KEITH MALINAK (06:06.542)

not just a mistake but a horrible mistake

PAT GRAY (06:10.602)

Yes, we wish you'd never been born and yet here we are having to raise you so it was tough. Mm-hmm. It was tough. No, I really I Really wanted my brothers and sisters around but they were you know older and didn't want to be and so

KEITH MALINAK (06:26.798)

So your oldest sibling, how much older, how much was the big gap there?

PAT GRAY (06:31.95)

16 years I believe. Yeah. I lost him. He died from cancer a few years ago.

KEITH MALINAK (06:38.734)

Gosh man, I'm sorry to hear that. Does cancer touch literally everyone? Seriously, it's everywhere man. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that. Okay, so you grew up in Helena, youngest of six. We talked about, you know, going to the lake and all that stuff. How was school? How was the actual... Because I hated school, okay? And I have a feeling, you know, before I ask you this question, I just assume you did too?

PAT GRAY (06:43.702)

Seems like it.

KEITH MALINAK (07:08.834)

but maybe I'm wrong.

PAT GRAY (07:10.446)

There were periods when I hated it by the time I got to high school. I think I kind of liked I yeah, I like the high school experience playing sports chasing girls You know the usual stuff when you're in high school. I enjoyed doing Football and tennis

KEITH MALINAK (07:15.432)

Okay

KEITH MALINAK (07:26.882)

In which sports did you play?

KEITH MALINAK (07:31.21)

So I know Pat heads out there listening to this would love to know like what position did you play in in football like were you the original? Blindbacker? Blindbacker? So mean were you were you Bronco Nagurski? Dragging yourself by the torso around the face? And you played a capital high right? What was the nickname again?

PAT GRAY (07:45.666)

The original Bronco.

Yes, yeah that incredible toughness same thing

PAT GRAY (07:57.486)

Bruins, the Bruins.

KEITH MALINAK (07:59.468)

So how were the Capitol Bruins when you were there?

PAT GRAY (08:02.222)

Well, initially, when I was a, let's see, I'm trying to remember if our first year as a high school was with no seniors. So we had only freshmen, mostly freshmen and sophomores, and we had a few juniors. That first year was really tough. I bet. We got beaten bad. We played our Crosstown Rivals hell in a high.

KEITH MALINAK (08:13.565)

yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (08:18.691)

Yeah.

PAT GRAY (08:27.758)

They beat us think it was 49 to nothing at the half and they called the game. No, yeah It was the kill rule now the next year we actually beat them. So yeah And we've beaten them most of the time ever since so That's why I say it doesn't it's not a big deal to get you know The crap beat out of you from time to time in sports you learn lessons from it. You work harder because of it you

KEITH MALINAK (08:41.602)

Good for you.

PAT GRAY (08:56.686)

you develop some aspirations that that's not gonna happen again and then you try to take steps to make sure it doesn't.

KEITH MALINAK (09:03.451)

I'm with you, man. Absolutely. Okay, so when you got done with high school, you didn't worry about college. You went straight into radio.

PAT GRAY (09:11.79)

Yeah, I was already in radio by about my junior year. I took a radio and TV class in my junior year in high school. And at the end of it, we took an FCC licensing test, which you had to have at the time to be on the radio. If you didn't have an FCC license and you didn't know how to convert all the transmitter readings, then you couldn't be on the radio. Well, they don't care about any of that anymore. First of all, it's all done digitally now, and they don't care.

KEITH MALINAK (09:36.685)

No.

PAT GRAY (09:41.006)

So at the time you had to have one, so the whole class, there was 28 of us, plus the teacher took the test and I was one of two people that passed it. The teacher didn't even pass it. I thought, well, you know, this must be somewhat valuable to have. So I called the radio station, KCAP in Helena. That was a top 40 station. And asked them if they needed any part-time help. They said they were looking for part-timers. Come down and cut a voice tape, which I did.

KEITH MALINAK (09:50.318)

Awesome, so I

KEITH MALINAK (10:08.27)

Did you sound- did you have great pipes like this when you were in high school? Wow, so I bet when they picked up the phone they like, uh-huh, yeah, get down here please.

PAT GRAY (10:11.267)

they were, you know, similar, probably.

PAT GRAY (10:16.728)

Yeah, they invited me down. what I mostly did was read teletype copy. You know what teletype is?

KEITH MALINAK (10:24.527)

yeah, it's almost like the, the Associated Press wire thing coming out.

PAT GRAY (10:29.408)

Yeah, it just prints out the news. And it just keeps going and going and going all night. you just keep ripping it. Rip it and read it. Right. And read it. And so about two days later, they called me and they hired me to do Weekend Overnights, Midnight to Six. And so that's where it all began. So by the time I graduated, I kind of had a career. mean, I was, you know, was late 70s. And so I was only making

KEITH MALINAK (10:45.014)

Nice.

PAT GRAY (10:58.606)

I don't know, or $600 a month, but it was five or $600 a month that I probably wouldn't have made if I would have gone to college and I would have had to worked my way through college.

KEITH MALINAK (11:12.622)

I spent that money to pay for college. Yes. Yeah. So you're in high school already making money. Were you enjoying this or was it laborious or how? No, I loved it. That's cool. Yeah, I loved it. So you've always loved radio. It's never seemed like a job. From the beginning. Yeah. Now, but you, when you were a kid, like when do you think you fell in love with radio? Because I think you had mentioned something about, and we all have done this. We all did this at some point in our childhoods.

where just recorded yourself doing a radio show or something like maybe in the basement or something. When did you discover this love for radio and screwing around like that?

PAT GRAY (11:47.534)

Probably 12 or mm-hmm in there probably yeah, just taped it might my dad had gotten a Reader's Digest Radio slash tape recorder so you could record the radio on the cassette deck That came in the unit and and it came with the microphone too, and so I I used to Know do my own intros on the songs and all that

KEITH MALINAK (12:14.254)

Yes, yes, so did you bug your parents and make them listen to your stuff? No

PAT GRAY (12:19.04)

I didn't want anybody to hear that. You just kept... Yeah, I did.

KEITH MALINAK (12:21.554)

yourself cuz see I I had a similar setup, but I like a little mini radio station in my basement and so when My parents friends would come over to play cards or something like that I would I would make them listen to the radio station that I was playing

PAT GRAY (12:36.522)

Way too embarrassing.

KEITH MALINAK (12:38.734)

Alright, well, um, do you have any of those tapes around? You burned them, didn't you?

PAT GRAY (12:42.848)

No, no, fortunately. Yeah, I did. I'm sure I deleted all all all sound.

KEITH MALINAK (12:50.328)

So I won't be editing this in for the benefit of your listeners to hear high

PAT GRAY (12:54.466)

You'd be hard pressed to find the evidence of those recordings now.

KEITH MALINAK (12:58.924)

yeah, I was playing not too long ago a radio show I did in college with a friend of mine and I was playing for my kids, set tape and stuff and wow, wow was I so horrible and so horrible to the point where my kids were mocking me to my face. It's like, yeah, well, you try this. It's not easy, kid. Now go to your room. That's basically how it ended.

PAT GRAY (13:24.564)

And you're short, you little brat. Get out of here.

KEITH MALINAK (13:27.852)

But after listening to that, I contemplated, maybe I burn all 44 of these shows I did in college.

PAT GRAY (13:34.286)

Yeah, I'm really sad that my early recordings of, you know, not the screwing around stuff, but I would still like to have the early recordings of my radio shows when I was 17 and 18. Oh my gosh. Unfortunately, somewhere at some point in my career, I listened back to him and I was so horrified and embarrassed by him that I erased him.

KEITH MALINAK (13:57.642)

I don't doubt that.

PAT GRAY (13:59.98)

I wish I wouldn't have. Now I would love to have though.

KEITH MALINAK (14:02.83)

Exactly. That's what I tell myself because I've got some old tapes too and you just... It'd be great! no, my kids, long... when I... I tell you what kids, you can listen to these again when I'm dead, okay? Yeah. Okay, so growing up in Helena, you got a radio job when you were in high school. Take us through, because we'll get to the other jobs that you've held over the years, but just the radio stuff because I know your listeners, I mean they've pieced together as they get to know you on Pac-Grey Unleashed,

and with Pat and Stu and Glenn's show and all of the places along the line that they've known you from, take us through your radio jobs around the country, because I'm sure people will be fascinated to know, oh, he passed through my town. So after Helena, when did you get out of there?

PAT GRAY (14:49.774)

When I was 19, I left Helena and went to Great Falls. And so that was my second radio job, my first away from home. And I was in Great Falls for like a year, I think. And then I went to Billings, Montana. So I went to KQDI in Great Falls. 1450, I think on the radio dial. All music radio, all top 40. AM, to start with.

KEITH MALINAK (15:13.038)

This is all music radio,

KEITH MALINAK (15:18.743)

Yeah, cuz

PAT GRAY (15:19.458)

It was just, it was still viable to a certain extent in the late 70s in Montana. think in like Los Angeles, the FM transformation had already happened, but not in Montana yet.

KEITH MALINAK (15:30.094)

Yeah, no, I don't want to swear by this. I'd have to Google this up and fact check later. But I'm pretty sure 1988. So I was 12 years old. I remember a big deal being made. And I think it was when WQXI, which was Top 40 Radio on AM, made the switch to FM 94.1. And that was a big deal. think it was 88 that that happened. yeah, AM was a player.

PAT GRAY (15:55.022)

It was for a while. And it tried to continue to be by switching to AM stereo. Do you remember all that? I vaguely remember. There was an AM stereo phase and they created actual AM stereo radios that nobody bought and it just didn't take off. It just didn't work. So anyway, my first few jobs were, the first three all in Montana were AM. And then I went to Billings, which is the biggest city in Montana. Was there for a while on K-O-O-K, Cook.

Music, 97, Cook. And then my first bigger job was in Salt Lake City. I got a job at Kissin, K-I-S-N, FM, in Salt Lake City. Started doing 6 to 10 at night there and then quickly moved to afternoon drive, 2 to 5. 21.

KEITH MALINAK (16:44.27)

And how old are you at this point? Wow, so you were progressing quickly. Think about this, if you had been in college right now, you'd be staying up late studying Spanish and biology and crap like that.

PAT GRAY (17:01.344)

Instead I make it $2,000 a month in in Salt Lake City, Utah. Nice. Yeah, which was a lot. That was a lot of money in the early 80s. So I already had a career, yeah, and it just seemed like silly to, you know, worry about going to college at that time. Although I kind of wish I'd done both because it would have been nice to have something to fall back on when times got tough and they would eventually get a little bit rough. So, yeah, I worked at Kissin in Salt Lake City and then I worked at

KEITH MALINAK (17:06.622)

for me then.

KEITH MALINAK (17:25.303)

Okay.

PAT GRAY (17:31.64)

KCPX in Salt Lake City, legendary call letters in Salt Lake City that's gone now. All of those radio stations are gone now. And went from there to another Salt Lake City station, Magic 107.5, and then I went to Hot 94.9. And one of those was an AC station, Adult Contemporary, so it's kind of soft rock. But the others were all Top 40.

KEITH MALINAK (17:59.214)

Did you ever have to, hate to interrupt you here, but you ever have to work in a genre that you didn't care for, where you had to fake it?

PAT GRAY (18:05.85)

No, not really. Well, the soft rock I wasn't really excited about, but I was program director there and did the morning show. And so it was OK. I didn't mind that. It worked with good people. And that's hard to do in radio, as you know.

KEITH MALINAK (18:21.248)

as know. mean, I, I can't remember the last time I worked with someone I enjoyed working with.

PAT GRAY (18:27.138)

Thank you. Thank you for that. So, yeah, in 1989, I lost my job, as often happens in this business. And people always wonder why. It just happens. People change formats, they change direction, they decide they want some other kind of sound, and so you just wind up losing your job, which happens.

KEITH MALINAK (18:52.872)

buy other companies all the time in this business.

PAT GRAY (18:54.958)

But it opened me up to, I worked pretty much everywhere in Salt Lake City I thought I could and so I was starting to think maybe we need to leave, which I didn't want to do because I really love Salt Lake City. But then I heard about this job in Baltimore, Maryland. They had just hired a person there and they were looking for a partner for them. so I flew out, I sent them a tape. They listened to it, liked it.

called me, asked me to fly out, and then paired me with this particular person. And we did an overnight, because the morning show was up for grabs. And so just to see if we gelled well together.

KEITH MALINAK (19:39.406)

Right, they'll either do this kind of test run on a weekend or overnight.

PAT GRAY (19:43.814)

Did it overnight on a weekend. I think it was a Friday night or a Saturday night I forget which and we did a midnight to six show and So I was paired with this kid named Glenn Beck and we gelled pretty well together from the very beginning

KEITH MALINAK (20:01.774)

1989 Baltimore, correct? Yes.

PAT GRAY (20:04.142)

B104 Baltimore, legendary radio station, which is also gone now. Oh, really? Yeah. So that went really well for a while. And Glenn and I bounced around the East Coast for a while. As a team. As a team. Did B104 in Baltimore, WJFK in Washington, DC. And then we went up to Hartford, New Haven at KC101. And we were there for.

KEITH MALINAK (20:09.139)

PAT GRAY (20:31.53)

several years. Glenn was there longer than I was because there was a time when his life was kind of spiraling out of control and he's documented that pretty well. And so I was kind of desirous to leave and I really wanted him to go with me and I thought it'd be a nice change if we could get out of there and go someplace and Jackie and I wanted to go back, take our family back home to Salt Lake City.

See, in that time we had four kids. Still were two to come. And so he didn't want to leave because his marriage had just broken up and his kids were there and he didn't want to leave the kids. So it turned out we had to split up. And so I went back to Salt Lake City and he stayed there. And that would have been 95.

KEITH MALINAK (21:05.759)

Okay, because right now yes, you're six. Okay. Yeah

KEITH MALINAK (21:24.59)

95 okay, so 95 you're going back to Salt Lake mm-hmm Did you so did you land a job in Salt Lake and then move okay? So you didn't yeah? You didn't pull a Keith and move to the city you want to live in and then worry about a job later

PAT GRAY (21:37.294)

Couldn't do that with four kids. That would be a really bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. So I went out ahead of time and shopped my tape around, which you kind of had to do at that time. You know, you took your air checks and you gave it to people and they listened to them. And so I got a job at Arrow 103.5, which was a classic rock station. And that was kind of fun. Although they didn't really want to do a personality. They were trying to decide if they wanted to do a personality morning show, which is what I did, or do they want to do just a morning show where you play a lot of music?

KEITH MALINAK (21:39.854)

Yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (22:07.098)

This is correct me if I'm wrong because you know better than me This is probably the period where they were just like nope introduced the next song Yes, maybe read a 10-second liner to promote what the station is doing this weekend and then go back

PAT GRAY (22:18.478)

That was pretty much it with this station. Yeah. And so I kind of hated that and it turned out they kind of hated it too. So I lost my job again. And that's where I fell on the hard times. Cause for a year I had a hard time getting a job. And so I was really underemployed. I think I worked part time at a station for a while, but I mostly sold insurance during this time.

KEITH MALINAK (22:45.71)

Aflac, right? Aflac. Did you ever have to quack like the dog? didn't get that. Oh, okay, okay.

PAT GRAY (22:49.494)

They didn't have the duck then. So nobody knew what the hell Aflac was. What's Aflac? Well, it's insurance, the supplemental. It's not really health insurance. It's a supplemental benefit. They didn't understand.

KEITH MALINAK (23:02.222)

It's so difficult to explain it. It is. Okay, and and that's That's probably why they had to they realized their employees didn't know how to sell it That's why they made a whole campaign on explaining what the heck it was

PAT GRAY (23:16.042)

Yeah, and that finally worked out for him. I well, I'm selling it to people who didn't have any idea and so they would drop it a Lot of times once they found out what it was and I only did it for you know eight or nine months or whatever and so every single client I had dropped it and what they did at the time because it's such a wonderful company. I I love aflac

They charge they charge back they charge back the money that you made they want back because they lost that client Well, what the hell it's not my fault. lost it. You should have maintained them Yeah, so all the money I made They charged me back for

KEITH MALINAK (23:59.115)

Do sit down and do the math to find out how much you really made over that night.

PAT GRAY (24:02.83)

Like zero, like I wound up making no money. I paid it all back to Affleck, which I wish I would have fought at the time because that's unbelievable to me. I hope they change that practice. Maybe somebody works for Affleck and they know better. But so anyway, finally, I thought this is ridiculous. I don't know anything about insurance. This is not what I do. And so I really concentrated again my effort on

radio and making that work and that's when my career took off again.

KEITH MALINAK (24:35.79)

You got back into music radio. You're talk radio yet at this point in your

PAT GRAY (24:39.246)

I was doing personality like in the afternoons on a station called B 98.7 and Doing candid phone in the afternoon. That's all kinds of things that people didn't normally hear in the afternoon, so it worked really well and and then I was getting close to 40 years old by this time. I was like 38 and My wife is like are you gonna keep doing top 40 radio your whole life like well?

Yeah, I thought I was. that a problem?

KEITH MALINAK (25:10.702)

You have a problem with- with- with- with- with food?

PAT GRAY (25:13.742)

And she's like, maybe you should at least get into talk radio and do something substantial. She's the one that was pushing me. Wow. Yeah. OK. So I saw an opening. heard about an opening. Actually, Glenn informed me of the opening because he was in Tampa by now. OK. Working in talk radio. And he heard about an opening in Houston, which he told Clear Channel hierarchy about because they had both stations.

KEITH MALINAK (25:19.192)

So Jackie, your wife, what?

PAT GRAY (25:43.958)

So I sent them a tape and they liked it and they brought me down to see if I could do talk radio because I'd never done it. And so I came down on a weekend. It was Easter weekend. huh. Wow. Yeah. In on in 2001.

KEITH MALINAK (25:55.793)

wow.

KEITH MALINAK (26:02.19)

I wonder when Easter fell that year because I was at that same time started in April of 2001.

PAT GRAY (26:10.107)

On the afternoon show at that same st- This is where our paths cross.

KEITH MALINAK (26:12.266)

so can see where our paths are let's see easter 2001 fell on a april 15th so i i would have already been there i think i think april 8th it feels like we're there like a week

PAT GRAY (26:25.71)

So you were. Yeah, that sounds about right. And I just remember going down. They flew me down and and I did the morning show for a couple of days and. And I remember it was surface of the sun hot. It was about 198 degrees. 3000 % humidity and it was just so miserable and I was and and I was staying in a.

KEITH MALINAK (26:46.85)

in the show.

PAT GRAY (26:54.766)

A crappy hotel.

KEITH MALINAK (26:56.494)

really? They didn't put you up in a really nice... I'm surprised! Tell your story, it's obviously filled with holes now.

PAT GRAY (26:58.83)

No, they really didn't know they really kind of didn't And And you know the program director there so at first he didn't make that good an impression on me No, and I wasn't crazy about him and so when I went home and I remember walking into the kitchen and Jackie was there because that's where I make her be and And she said so what do you think are we going to Houston I said no

No, absolutely not. We're not going to Houston. That place is hell. And she's like, huh, really? I wonder if we should pray about that. I'm like, no, no, we shouldn't. that's really not a good idea. Not a good idea at all, because I've already made the decision we're not going. Well, eventually we did, of course, and got a different answer, and we wound up there. And what?

KEITH MALINAK (27:42.264)

because you don't be doing that.

PAT GRAY (27:57.41)

three weeks, a month, month and a half into my experiences morning show host, my producer quit, she left and they took you from the afternoon show.

KEITH MALINAK (28:11.8)

Yeah, so Ken asked me to cover that and what you don't realize is at the time is Gosh it had to been had to been right at the same time right before I was dragged over there I mean, mean I mean same moment what you don't realize is that I had told Ken that it wasn't working out for me and the afternoons and all this stuff and

PAT GRAY (28:40.008)

really? I don't think I knew that.

KEITH MALINAK (28:41.31)

Yeah, and I was actually going, I was looking for a teaching job. I was gonna go teach history. That was gonna be my new line of work in a public school somewhere, probably hating life. But I was not a fan of Houston. So the impression that you got on Easter week in 2001 kind of stuck with me for, well, ever. yeah, so, but he and I talked. He asked me to not.

you know, leave town just yet, because my wife hadn't moved yet. We didn't have kids. So, um, he actually asked me, why don't you, dude, dude, don't leave. Try, try. Can you try out, uh, filling in on the morning show as a producer? And I'm like, what time do I have to wake up? Yeah. So anyway, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

PAT GRAY (29:31.104)

Because it started at 5 a.m. For you anyway. Eventually not so much for me, but for you it started at 5.

KEITH MALINAK (29:40.376)

show started at five. Pat joined the show in progress around 5.15 every morning. Anyway, no. So I tried it, you know? And all of the fun that I had with the show, it outweighed my dislike of the city, the hours, the lack of sleep, because I really genuinely had tons of fun doing that morning show with you. And unfortunately for you, when I eventually did have kids a couple of years later, I just could not.

PAT GRAY (30:09.902)

just thought you didn't want him, raise him in Houston's third war.

KEITH MALINAK (30:10.766)

I couldn't see raising children in a town with strip club billboards every three feet.

PAT GRAY (30:20.334)

That's very true. That is a problem in Houston.

KEITH MALINAK (30:22.51)

Yeah, it's a lot of problems I have with that town. anyhow, so when we did eventually leave in 2003, it wasn't it wasn't a year later that I was calling like, hey, so when are we going to get together again? Because, you know, the grass is always greener, Yeah. But 2001 to 2003, I had a blast doing radio with you. It was a lot of fun. It was a good time. It really was. Yeah. So I had good time. had good time.

PAT GRAY (30:43.726)

It's a time.

KPRC yeah you know and I was there until 2006 when they fired me on my birthday which was fun yeah I hate to do this dude yeah all right well okay

KEITH MALINAK (31:01.304)

So, okay, so you were there doing talk radio for over five years then. Yeah. Five and a half years. Mm-hmm. But you genuinely liked Houston, you and your family.

PAT GRAY (31:10.804)

Yeah, after about, I don't know, a month or two probably, I loved Houston. Loved it. I love Houston now every bit as much as Salt Lake City.

KEITH MALINAK (31:19.262)

wow. Yeah. Okay. So you were probably, correct me if I'm wrong, just determined to do what it took to stay in Houston. Yeah. Had you ever thought, man if I can't stay in radio though, you know, would you still have stayed in Houston or would you have eventually...

PAT GRAY (31:25.9)

i really wanted

PAT GRAY (31:34.015)

There was really no thought of not staying in radio.

KEITH MALINAK (31:36.942)

I was just trying to figure out how much you love that town, you know?

PAT GRAY (31:40.512)

I didn't look outside the town at all and as soon as I was fired I got a call from the opposition. So that night, Dan Patrick, who's now Texas Lieutenant Governor, he owned the Crosstown station that was right up against KPRC. And so he called me and we got together and talked and

KEITH MALINAK (31:48.718)

I didn't even have time to think.

KEITH MALINAK (31:58.062)

Isn't that a crazy, what a f***ing world man.

PAT GRAY (32:09.55)

eventually a couple weeks later worked it out where I went over to KSEV and they paired me with the guy who was already doing the morning show there so they kind of jammed me into the show but it worked out really well because Ed Hendy became just a great friend of mine. That's awesome. And we had a really good time together on the radio.

KEITH MALINAK (32:26.765)

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

KEITH MALINAK (32:32.856)

That's cool. So you were there at KSEV doing that show with Ed until...

PAT GRAY (32:38.606)

From 06 until 09 when somebody named Glenn Beck, guy from my past called me and said, would you ever consider coming back and working with me again? I'm like, huh? Huh? yeah, I think I would. I might because up until that point I never

KEITH MALINAK (32:41.298)

wow.

KEITH MALINAK (32:49.208)

been in with stuff.

PAT GRAY (33:04.51)

I never wanted to go back to that because Glenn had already developed this thing, this empire. mean, he was doing radio, he already had a national show, and he had the CNN thing, and he had just started with Fox a few months before this. And I wasn't sure I wanted to just be swallowed up in all of that, but for some reason, it really felt like it was time.

KEITH MALINAK (33:24.546)

Yeah, that's right.

KEITH MALINAK (33:33.1)

Did Jackie make you pray about it again? Yes. what is she doing? What is she doing?

PAT GRAY (33:36.542)

She did. She's like that. So frustrating! Why do we always have to pray?

KEITH MALINAK (33:44.856)

Goodness, just let me make a decision every now and then, woman.

PAT GRAY (33:47.372)

Let me just say no, I wanna stay in Houston! Let's pray about it. No!

KEITH MALINAK (33:54.23)

Where did you meet Jackie like how did you all meet like how old were you was it was 12 you were 12?

PAT GRAY (33:59.874)

And we got married at 13. No, that's not true. When I went to Salt Lake City in my early 20s, my sister, my oldest sister had moved there from Helena. And so she was there and she was working at a JCPenney's in the Salt Lake City area. And so she met this woman where she worked.

And this woman told her, I have a daughter who cuts hair because my sister was looking for somebody to cut her daughter's hair. So she said, I have this daughter who's in a cosmetology school. I've been very well trained to call it cosmetology school instead of beauty school. I have a daughter who works at cosmetology school. You should take her there. So my sister took her daughter to Jackie to have her haircut.

That night, I just happened to be having dinner with my sister at her house. And the first thing she said to me when I came in the house was, I just met your eternal companion today. I'm like, huh. Yeah, it really is. And I thought, yeah, sure you do. Okay, I'm sure that's, yeah, no doubt about it. And so she, you know, she had been talking to her and really liked her and thought she was beautiful and sweet and all of the things she really is. And

KEITH MALINAK (35:08.593)

there's a nice icebreaker.

PAT GRAY (35:26.73)

So she gave me her phone number and like a month later I think I called her and we arranged this plan.

KEITH MALINAK (35:32.82)

my gosh, ladies and gentlemen, that is so typical Pat. So I got her number. I was already told she was going to be my eternal companion. And I was like, you know what? not doing anything here. A month later.

PAT GRAY (35:41.496)

Yeah, but I didn't believe it.

PAT GRAY (35:47.254)

I was around the holidays and I didn't want to, you know, start up a new thing and have to give somebody a Christmas present.

PAT GRAY (35:57.198)

Now you're on board? Yes. There was method to my madness. That is good. So in January you're not buying anybody anything, right?

KEITH MALINAK (36:04.686)

You know what, if you wanna be uber cheap, then wait till February 15th, the day after Valentine's Day. Yes. Ten and a half months of not buying anything. Maybe there's a birthday in there, but if you're lucky, maybe it fell between December 25th February 14th. Right. But that's cool, you finally called her and...

PAT GRAY (36:11.559)

That's what I should have done.

PAT GRAY (36:20.14)

Right.

So I finally called her and as soon as she opened the door I knew. yeah. That's her. That's the one I've been waiting for. That's awesome.

KEITH MALINAK (36:28.984)

That's right there. Where'd you go for your first date?

PAT GRAY (36:32.721)

restaurant in Salt Lake City, the suburbs of Salt Lake City called La Kaye. It's a beautiful French chateau restaurant.

KEITH MALINAK (36:40.972)

Wow. did. Like, did you know that you were going to go there before you guys met up? Like, or did you?

PAT GRAY (36:46.282)

No, I just decided because you

KEITH MALINAK (36:48.952)

What I'm trying to ascertain is when you saw how beautiful she was and like, my gosh, this is the one. Hey, I know I said we were going to McDonald's, but we're actually going to this French place.

PAT GRAY (36:59.491)

No, I actually had it planned in advance so she could have been butt ugly and I still would have had to take her to Lekai

KEITH MALINAK (37:06.254)

This is the biggest waste of money in my life look at this chick

PAT GRAY (37:11.47)

So fortunately it worked out. It worked out well.

KEITH MALINAK (37:14.222)

And you guys have six kids together. Yep. And three boys three girls, right? Yes. That's awesome. They're spread out all over the country or?

PAT GRAY (37:23.694)

most of them are here. We our oldest son, our two oldest daughters. Our youngest was here until today. She just left on her mission. Where's she She's going to St. Louis.

KEITH MALINAK (37:35.758)

Oh, wow. You've got say it. St. Louis. OK, cool. Well, that's different than previous missions in your family.

PAT GRAY (37:42.446)

Yeah, my middle son went to Finland, Helsinki, Finland. Yes, he did. My oldest son went to Washington, D.C. South. Yeah. that was scary.

KEITH MALINAK (37:48.462)

You get to see socialism up close. You had another.

During that sniper. That was when we were in Houston together and I was right there with you, man. The tents every day. You're like, is it going to be breaking news about someone else being shot in DC suburbs today? And is it going to be my son? Oh yeah, that was.

PAT GRAY (38:08.558)

It was it was the time when that sniper shot I think killed 13 Really awful really awful time and my son wasn't helping us any because he would send his photos Hey, here's the gas station where that person was shot. Yeah, thank you Thank you for showing us that you're right there in that general vicinity. Appreciate that 17 Wow Wow

KEITH MALINAK (38:12.974)

That was around there, yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (38:28.782)

17 people

KEITH MALINAK (38:34.732)

But so, correct me if I'm wrong, but the way the mission stuff, the communications works, is there's only specific times that they have access to communicate with the families? Yes. And so...

PAT GRAY (38:47.586)

That's changed a little bit because it used to be they could only call you on Mother's Day and Christmas. But now you can call every week. that's good. Once a week. Yeah, that's good. So it's a lot better.

KEITH MALINAK (38:53.087)

Okay.

KEITH MALINAK (38:58.222)

Imagine that you're waiting for that window, right? Yeah. week or every night. And you're like, okay, he better reach out right at the start of this window or I'm going to be.

PAT GRAY (39:02.824)

So hard. So hard.

PAT GRAY (39:09.278)

Yeah, and they only have a certain amount of time they can spend on the phone because you know what they do is they preach the gospel. That's what they do the whole time. yeah, anyway, and our oldest daughter lives here. Our oldest two daughters live here and our youngest two sons are going to school at BYU.

KEITH MALINAK (39:17.368)

what they do.

KEITH MALINAK (39:29.93)

Okay, very cool. I think I interrupted your radio story about the time Glenn was inviting you to join him in New York. Okay. How was that transition from Houston to NYC? Because you guys lived in Connecticut, right? Yes. Okay.

PAT GRAY (39:48.738)

It was made easier because we lived in Connecticut. As you know, because New York City is not a great place to live. It was a fun, it turns out, I remember it really fondly for working there. And I remember it being an exciting time and, you know, the commute was brutal. You commuted. in. I drove in most of the time. Sometimes I took the train, but usually I drove because I didn't want to be bound to the schedule of the trains. Yeah. And so...

KEITH MALINAK (39:50.722)

the

KEITH MALINAK (39:54.209)

Yeah.

PAT GRAY (40:18.318)

The problem with that is it's so expensive to park in New York City that it's either way you go though, cause it's about, it might be about the same price as taking the train in every day because that costs four or 500 a month. And then if you're paying four or 500 a month driving in and the gas and the tolls, it might be a little more expensive driving in. I think it is. But so that takes a toll on you. I mean, you came in from Pennsylvania.

KEITH MALINAK (40:22.976)

ridiculous.

KEITH MALINAK (40:48.242)

No, no, I close I was way out in Western Jersey Jersey lived out near if you look on a map straight out the interstate Clinton New Jersey area, but It it took me a while to figure out because I used to the train in mm-hmm But there weren't there was one option there was one option and I'd always be late to our meeting and then I realized somebody made me wise to the fact that literally a mile from where I lived was a bus station that was leaving like every ten minutes

Much than the train did. perfect. And see that is the only thing that I miss about living up there is that can get work done on the bus. Yeah. Get your laptop out. They added Wi-Fi on the bus. mean it was because I did a lot of editing and so that was perfect on the bus. That's the one aspect of commuting in Dallas that I do miss is is the ability to get work done while commuting.

PAT GRAY (41:18.606)

Clear.

KEITH MALINAK (41:43.692)

But other than that, you can take the Northeast and put that in your pipe and shove it. Because I'm not a fan of that part of the country. Sorry. Georgia boy, what can I say?

PAT GRAY (41:51.49)

Yeah, it's different. It's really different.

KEITH MALINAK (41:56.268)

You enjoyed it and you did Connecticut and then were you excited when the move to Dallas was announced? Okay, Yeah, yeah. And you've been great friends with Glenn for now. What are we going to years? You can be honest with me. mean, just just whisper in my ear. How easy is he to work with? right. The easiest, easiest, It's just easiest like a walk in the park. Yeah, Keith.

PAT GRAY (42:02.254)

I was excited about coming back to Texas.

PAT GRAY (42:09.71)

30 years.

PAT GRAY (42:20.814)

huh, easiest ever.

KEITH MALINAK (42:23.426)

Yeah, he's great. Yes. He's fun. He is. No, he's a great boss. He's been so good to me and my family. Anyway, it's just it's fun being a part of the empire, right? It is. You are a very creative person. your voice, your like your vocal cords never everybody in this building is jealous of your ability to not lose your voice.

PAT GRAY (42:42.447)

and not lose my yeah what a talent it's you know

KEITH MALINAK (42:47.31)

Like you're Superman. You've done so many creative things here. You know, you were with the radio show forever. You did Pat and Stu, which is, if not the greatest show in the history of the Blaze network, it's right up there. Is there anything creatively that you still want to accomplish or do you feel like career wise you've accomplished everything you want to do? Is there still stuff out there for Pat Gray?

PAT GRAY (43:13.006)

That's a good question. You know, I'm old now, so I think I've done a lot of what I... I like doing this. I'd love to continue to try to alert people to what's going on. Love to make a difference for Liberty, if that's possible. And you know, I think we try to do that here by doing the show and I love doing the show. just, it's been...

A real pleasure to be doing Pat Gray Unleashed.

KEITH MALINAK (43:46.732)

I have a blast as well. There's a lot of fun that we have both on air and off. What outside of employment and work aspect would you say, if you even want to discuss, has been your biggest challenge that you faced in your life? Like I said, that you're comfortable discussing.

PAT GRAY (44:04.204)

I think raising six kids in the increasingly horrific environment that we find ourselves in has been a pretty big challenge. It's really tough. there's no manual to raising these kids. So you just do the best you can. we try to do everything we possibly could to give them the foundation they needed to make it through all of it.

And that's why we homeschooled for 23 years. That's why we created the school and ran that for five years until they all got out of it. And now they're on their own and they're all adults now. And so now they got to do it. So hopefully we gave them the foundation to be able to.

KEITH MALINAK (44:48.302)

That's great. I want to ask you about your mom. I had the sincere pleasure of sitting next to her at one of your daughter's wedding receptions. We were having dinner and what an impression she made on me. What a kind person. What a funny person. Just a sincere, great person. I could just tell from that one time that I got to sit right next to her and tell me, was she not like the greatest mom?

PAT GRAY (45:15.746)

She was the greatest mom. She was. She was awesome. Fierce. huh. Fierce. In her love for her children. my gosh. You talk about a mama bear. That's the very definition of my mom. She was fiercely loving, fiercely protective, and just a force of nature. If you ever did anything to her kids, look out, because she's coming for you.

KEITH MALINAK (45:20.246)

I can see that,

KEITH MALINAK (45:42.488)

Just, mean, the initial moments that I met her, I could tell she was A, strong. Yeah, she was. B, confident. Mm-hmm. C, hilarious. Just seems like a great mom and...

PAT GRAY (45:52.258)

Yep, she was.

good sport. I teased her because I want to do that relentlessly. What? She's just so great with it. Yeah, she was an awesome mother and yeah, I miss her. I her like crazy.

KEITH MALINAK (46:08.29)

Do you think that's where you get your sense of humor or?

PAT GRAY (46:11.022)

probably partly, yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (46:13.298)

Fun yet biting all at the same time? I can see that. I could see it immediately. Well anyhow, I just wanted to give you a chance to talk about her because she made an impression.

PAT GRAY (46:15.48)

Hahaha

PAT GRAY (46:23.246)

Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, she was wonderful.

KEITH MALINAK (46:25.976)

You made quite the impression on me. All right. Well, thank you so much for spending time with me on this podcast. wasn't it was painless, right? It wasn't didn't hurt that not too badly. Very good. Pat Gray, you know him as the host. It's amazing how these things work out. He's the host of a show called Pat Gray Unleashed. I love it. I just it's fascinating how that stuff hits like.

PAT GRAY (46:34.092)

to

PAT GRAY (46:44.472)

The odds. What are the odds?

PAT GRAY (46:49.676)

You know, when Luke Gehrig got Luke Gehrig's disease. What were the odds of that? Come on!

KEITH MALINAK (46:55.47)

now! What are the odds? Catch him on Blaze TV, Blaze Radio Network, podcast anywhere look for Pat Gray Unleashed. He's on Twitter at Pat Unleashed. Thanks so much for spending time with me today. Yeah, you're welcome. You're so welcome. You know what I forgot to do? What'd forget to do? I forgot to take a picture of you. okay. So you're gonna smile here while we're doing this podcast and there we go. There is Pat. There I am.

PAT GRAY (47:09.851)

no. I forgot. Thank you.

KEITH MALINAK (47:23.192)

Perfect. Okay, you're the first person I've taken a picture of whose name appears in the background. It's just amazing how these coincidences keep popping up.

PAT GRAY (47:31.182)

incredible. It's incredible.

KEITH MALINAK (47:34.414)

Do you ever get any downtime? ever get to relax? I mean, know you play the guitar. Is that where your hobbies end? Or you get other stuff you do?

PAT GRAY (47:46.598)

Yeah, I love playing the guitar. Do that pretty much every day. You know, I like movies. Favorite movie of all time?

KEITH MALINAK (47:52.782)

Which favorite movie? If you had, like if you're on a deserted Island and they're like, all right, you get three movies to occupy your time. And then like these coconuts to drink out of what three movies you're picking.

PAT GRAY (48:04.654)

Princess Bride,

KEITH MALINAK (48:12.076)

He's wavering. He's like, do I go with this one? Do I go with this one? I'll give you four if you need four.

PAT GRAY (48:17.303)

Maybe Notting Hill. I love that movie. Really? Billy Roberts and yeah, you never seen that?

KEITH MALINAK (48:19.148)

I've never seen that. You have it on D.

Yeah. Yeah, I gotta see that. I love it. I've seen it come up like so many times.

PAT GRAY (48:27.47)

I mean it's a romantic comedy, it's like a chick flick, but I love it. I love it.

KEITH MALINAK (48:31.726)

Okay. I was surprised that you do rock climbing. I want you to tell me all about free soloing El Capitan. mean, I'm sure that's exactly what you do in your downtime. So let's hear about it. Go!

PAT GRAY (48:46.252)

Yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (48:48.622)

Tell me about your little puppy. Yeah, bell.

PAT GRAY (48:50.826)

Our dog Bell Yeah, that's my really my wife's dog. It's more of a glorified rat It's actually a dog. She's irresistible though. I mean, she's so cute that you can't help it go. You're cute Yeah, you can't help it I mean would you like to have a real dog in the house? but

KEITH MALINAK (48:56.128)

or you... you cuddle with a...

KEITH MALINAK (49:07.798)

same way with my Matilda. Yeah.

KEITH MALINAK (49:16.11)

But see but see You knew me when I had four cats that was a high watermark of my insanity of right as pet ownership goes I have zero cats You'll be happy to know today, but I do have the two dogs and I can't imagine life without dogs I mean, I've talked about this with other folks that have sat in that chair. It's like I can't imagine a world without dogs in my life, you know, but now obviously both of our greatest joys not our little puppies, but our kids and

PAT GRAY (49:43.02)

Right?

KEITH MALINAK (49:44.31)

Ladies and gentlemen, I send out the questionnaire for everyone to answer before they sit down in front of the microphone. So I have an idea where to go with this stuff. And I just asked Pat on the email, any interesting talents you have. And here's his response. Cause this is what I'm saying. You know, this is where our joy comes from sitting down and having fun with our kids more than anything. His response to his interesting talents is I used to delight my kids by burping the word Mike. However, I have nearly completely retired that talent, but we're going to resurrect it today. Are we not?

PAT GRAY (50:14.382)

No,

KEITH MALINAK (50:15.49)

Alright, so isn't it great how you can just entertain your kids and they think you're the greatest person in world? They think, my gosh, my daddy can burp the word mic! And like today I can't even get him to hold a conversation that lasts more than two sentences.

PAT GRAY (50:26.382)

And believe me, it delighted my wife as well. Oh, she loved that. She can't get enough of it. Yeah, that might be one of the reasons I've retired it, actually. They grew up a little bit and I think she was a little tired of it.

KEITH MALINAK (50:38.52)

Now you don't have an audience in the house and you're like, but come on Jackie. I can burp the word my

PAT GRAY (50:43.694)

Come on now who can do that not that many people I don't know why it was the word Mike it could have been anything but

KEITH MALINAK (50:47.04)

Me? Right? Uh-uh, no.

KEITH MALINAK (50:53.43)

So So the name of this podcast is at the MAAA-I-C. But there's a voice that my son, my son is so gifted, he should get into advertising of coming up with catchy jingles and phrases and annoying sounds, right? That you just can't get out of your head because they're so catchy. But he came up with this weird voice where it's almost like a burp. And so whenever Carrie is not around, me and the kids will communicate in that voice. But as soon as that door opens, it's like, nope, we're back to acting mature, relatively speaking.

What's something people don't know about you, Pat?

PAT GRAY (51:24.056)

something they don't know about me. What did I write?

KEITH MALINAK (51:27.852)

You wrote, don't know. I don't have access to all the things people know about me. Not being inside their head.

PAT GRAY (51:35.982)

Let's see how brilliant is that?

KEITH MALINAK (51:37.742)

Would it surprise people to know that you're Sunday School teacher?

PAT GRAY (51:42.838)

Yeah, would it? Are you surprised to know that? I don't

KEITH MALINAK (51:45.595)

I kind of want to know what the angle of the class is. I could see you being very historic minded in your approach to a Sunday school class. Do they assign you? they say, hey,

PAT GRAY (51:55.49)

You got certain lessons that you prepare. Yeah, but but but there's a guideline for it. And so, you know, you can do certain things within the guidelines. And it's just it's teaching, you know, the Bible, the Book of Mormon. I try to stay away from politics as much as possible because we do have some Democrats and liberals in the class. really? Yeah. Wow. And I'm really cognizant of that. And I really don't want to I mean, church is not really the place for it. So I really try to stay away from that.

KEITH MALINAK (51:59.425)

Okay.

KEITH MALINAK (52:22.738)

I agree Okay, this is a great answer though. What's something you want to accomplish in your lifetime you wrote inner peace outer tranquility explain explain what that means I'm gonna make you answer all of these don't think that I'm just gonna let any of these go

PAT GRAY (52:38.584)

Man.

KEITH MALINAK (52:41.29)

Is it possible? Let me get you off the spot here. I've concluded recently that I will never be at peace. doesn't matter what answers I get, what comfort I have, and fill in the blank, I will never be at peace because I will never be at rest. So I just wonder, is that even possible? Because I've tried, have I tried? And I'm failing, so.

PAT GRAY (52:43.694)

Hmm.

PAT GRAY (52:49.124)

I believe that about you.

KEITH MALINAK (53:08.684)

Congratulations if you're any closer to that goal than me.

PAT GRAY (53:12.414)

Yeah, I think it you know if you're at peace with the way you are spiritually and the way your family is and the direction you're headed I think you can achieve it. I think you can I mean you control the things you can control and you just you try to You try to just roll with the rest of it because I mean there's so many things we can't control here in in the world and we talk about them every day and it just keeps It just keeps building up and if you let it like we do on the air

It'll drive you out of your mind.

KEITH MALINAK (53:43.668)

last question and I'll leave you alone. I asked you if had a bucket list. You said not really, but you and Jackie have always wanted to tour Europe, such as Paris, Rome, maybe London. I hope that that happens for you. Where some of the places you're going to get to see on this cruise coming up?

PAT GRAY (53:57.539)

Me too.

PAT GRAY (54:01.358)

Well yeah, that's, I mean, we're sort of gonna do some of the places that we've always wanted to, because we're going to Italy, we're going to Venice, we're going to Israel, we've been there. Oh, that's cool. You we were there in, what was it, 2012? Was it 2011 or 2012? 2011. So we were there, you know, with the Glenn Israel thing, the restoring, whatever restoring one that was.

KEITH MALINAK (54:19.694)

11.

KEITH MALINAK (54:27.596)

Yeah, I'm restoring.

PAT GRAY (54:28.726)

We were restoring something. I think we were restoring restoration is what we were doing. so that was good. So we're going to Israel, we're going to Venice and we're going to Croatia. So those are those are pretty cool destinations.

KEITH MALINAK (54:35.627)

Something else

KEITH MALINAK (54:44.782)

Yeah, I have a passport. Yeah, but I've never used it. And my only goal is to use it is to go to Edmonton for a hockey game up in Canada. And I was thinking maybe going to the Husker game. That's a mod of school in Dublin in 2020. Cool. Yeah. So August of 2021, I'm kind of thinking, yeah, it would take football to get me to Europe. But if you guys do get to make this

PAT GRAY (54:57.985)

Dublin would be-

KEITH MALINAK (55:07.924)

great trip to Europe to these places like Paris and London and stuff like that. Would you try to do them all in one trip or would you want to go to a London trip, a Paris trip? No, you want to do a continent.

PAT GRAY (55:16.812)

Yeah, because I doubt that we'll get there multiple times. Probably just be once. And you know, it's getting a little frightening to go to Europe. They've got some issues there. They've got some problems there. And I don't want to get caught up in all of that. So it would have to be pretty soon too.

KEITH MALINAK (55:33.196)

What is the favorite trip you and Jackie have ever taken? Favorite place you've ever been so far?

PAT GRAY (55:38.296)

Hawaii probably. nice. We love Hawaii.

KEITH MALINAK (55:40.256)

Okay, When's last time you got to Hawaii?

PAT GRAY (55:43.598)

2012?

KEITH MALINAK (55:46.121)

I thought you were going to 2012. Okay. Did you take any kids with you?

PAT GRAY (55:50.178)

Yeah, we took all our, well, all our kids that were still home.

KEITH MALINAK (55:53.088)

You regret it? Or do you wish it was just you and Jackie?

PAT GRAY (55:55.214)

No comment on that.

KEITH MALINAK (56:00.01)

Anyway, alright, so anything I've missed, you want to cover here, Pat? You're good?

PAT GRAY (56:04.716)

You covered pretty much more than there is to cover. yeah, I think we're good.

KEITH MALINAK (56:09.024)

Alright, Pat Gray, Pat Gray unleashed on the Blaze TV and radio networks. This has been At The Mic with Keith, an independent podcast production. Look for At The Mic Show on Twitter to connect.